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You are either with us or against us. - Peter Sheil [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
Peter Sheil

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You are either with us or against us. [Sep. 5th, 2002|01:41 pm]
Peter Sheil
In the past year this phrase has been used many times to imply that all those against military action are in favour of the terrorists.


I don't for one moment want to support the terrorists personally, nor do I want to slight the memories of those who died, both in the acts of terorism and the subsequent war. But I do think we need a clear aim and reason to go to war again. It seems like Mr Blair will be supporting Prisident Bush in this - I'm not convinced we should be entering into anoher war.

What do you think?

Poll #58113 For or Aganst

Was America right to attack Afghanistan?

Yes, definitely
9(21.4%)
Probably
4(9.5%)
Maybe
7(16.7%)
Probably not
13(31.0%)
Definitely not
9(21.4%)

Is it possible to disagree with America and still not support terrorism?

Yes
39(90.7%)
No
2(4.7%)
Don't know
2(4.7%)

Should America attack Iraq?

Yes definitely
2(4.8%)
Probably
1(2.4%)
Maybe
2(4.8%)
Probably not
3(7.1%)
Definitely not
8(19.0%)
Only with a UN mandate
3(7.1%)
Only after disclosing proof of the threat
5(11.9%)
Only after an actual attack against US or allies
5(11.9%)

What do you think about the threat of war?

LinkReply

Comments:
From: occipitaldruid
2002-09-05 07:54 am (UTC)
I don't like what my country is doing. I think that if they really wanted to end all of this nightmare, they could. I think they probably could get Bin Laden if they really wanted to. I think there is some money agenda (oil, most likely) that they have going. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if our gov't actually were the ones who got the sept. 11 attacks to happen. I don't trust Bush any farther than I can spit on him, and I certainly don't trust the people he has put into power. I don't think war is the answer. But I don't think doing nothing is either.

Fact is, America is hated all over the world. And having lived overseas, I can see why. But I am an American, and I don't want my country attacked. I don't want my country attacking others. The concepts that the American people have a voice anymore is a joke. The only thing that gets noticed *is* violence. THAT is a serious problem. I don't think that is the answer. I certainly don't have the money to have my opinion heard either.

It's such a nightmarish mess.
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From: occipitaldruid
2002-09-05 07:56 am (UTC)
uhm...sorry to go off like that in your lj.... ;)
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[User Picture]From: petersheil
2002-09-05 07:59 am (UTC)
That's OK -if I didn't want people's honest opinions then I wouldn't have put the entry / poll there. :)
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[User Picture]From: icclerae
2002-09-05 08:30 am (UTC)
This poll really interested me (thanks Peter) as I find this an reaaly emotive issue. It's good to heard an American with conscience, a voice and a wider view of the world. I hope that there are more people like you you over there and that you get your voice heard. I'm extremely scared and angry but I can see how it could effect a caring US citizen. Good luck :)
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From: occipitaldruid
2002-09-05 08:39 am (UTC)
There are a *lot* of Americans who are very angry about how our gov't is handling this. We just do not get any media time unless we start blowing up our own people. (that is not a threat or something I am thinking about, btw.) What I mean is, unless people do horrific things anymore, it seems their opinions and voices go unheard. Especially in the larger world court.
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[User Picture]From: petersheil
2002-09-05 09:57 am (UTC)

Re:

the media needs something exciting and "important" - this is especially true in the US where the media has a much narrower focus geographically than here in the UK (and generally in Europe I think)

Also bad news is news - good news is a filler item. sad but true.

Thanks for your input to this.
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From: occipitaldruid
2002-09-05 10:13 am (UTC)
Yup. The American media picks one thing and focuses on it. Child abductions seem to the fad right now. From what I understand, there has not been an increase in kidnappings and child murders. It is just getting a lot of attention now, due to a few wealthy children being abducted. Elizabeth Smart seems to be the case that started it all up this time around in the news.

Oh well, at least we find out what is really important. Like who won American Idol. *snort*
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[User Picture]From: icclerae
2002-09-06 01:55 am (UTC)
:(
It's sad. I think it is human nature to pay attention to the ugly and aggressive attention, but surely we don't have to react to it in the same. That's just exacerbating the situation and carrying on the circle of destruction.
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[User Picture]From: petersheil
2002-09-06 02:56 am (UTC)

Re:

So you should only read newspapers which pesent an equal amount of good and bad news ... now let me see ... that would be which one?

OK, that is a bit cynical but I am 48 so claim my right to be a bit jaded at times.

don't get me wrong - I do actually hope for the best and that is why I do things like this LJ poll to get people talking / discusing it in an open friendly environment.
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[User Picture]From: petersheil
2002-09-05 09:54 am (UTC)

Re:

There are many caring US citizens out there - most of the Americans / Canadians on my friends list would be against the war to a greater or lesser extent.

If you check the results you will see (as at the last time I looked) that the most pro-war view was expressed by someone from the UK ... makes you think doesn't it.

*Discursively*
peter
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From: occipitaldruid
2002-09-05 11:00 am (UTC)
It does indeed.

I heard an interview on NPR (National Public Radio--a radio forum that *does* actual air *world* news here in the states). An ex French secret service agent had been researching the entire US/Middle East issue. He wrote a book, and I wish I would have written the title down because it would have been an interesting read.

His proposal was that this war, of course, is all about money, oil, and power. It is about the US and Saudi wealthy staying in control, in power, and getting wealthier. Let's face it---in the right businesses, war is very profitable. He suggested that the real enemy is the Saudi money. That is what is bankrolling the terrorism out of the Middle East, and has been for decades. He proclaimed that it is a shame that the Saudi bankers are not the ones being put on trial for war crimes and for terrorism. His theories made a lot of sense to me. I think it was on the right track to say that the money supply needs to be stopped. That is what it usually comes down to: being rich, which equals being powerful.

Wow. Sorry Peter---I hadn't realized how much this entire subject is bothering me!
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[User Picture]From: icclerae
2002-09-06 01:50 am (UTC)
It's all a bit scarey. I just can't understand where all the hatred comes from.
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From: deunsander
2002-09-05 03:33 pm (UTC)

Trying again...

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[User Picture]From: petersheil
2002-09-08 02:40 pm (UTC)

Re: Trying again...

He he - yes it does seem like that some times
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